TODAY..communication with a sociopath

I really wanted to keep this blog in order. I just can't do it right now. I wanted to walk you through start to finish; I will pick up where I left off eventually. As of today, I have not been with my ex for almost 4 months now. I had walked away. Started therapy. Started healing myself. Looking at how I ended up where I did with him and that relationship.

It's been a long, tough journey. Lots of tears. Lots of pain. Lots of questions unanswered. Lots of time to reflect and think about how, where I went wrong. One of the first things I learned was he was emotionally unavailable. I stumbled across another blog that was amazing and eye opening to say the least. It was what I really needed to start to open my eyes. Her blog is therapy beyond my personal therapy. Her site is located at:
http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/getting-your-wake-up-call-relationship-epiphanies/ 

Beyond that, I learned about Betrayal Bond. It was exactly what I had experienced with my ex. The lies, the other women, the hurt, betrayal, it's a "bonding experience". Not the good bonding like when you have a child. It's a painful bond that keeps you hooked.

Even though we have not been a "couple" for many months, I am still connected to him emotionally. I have not seen him at all. Yet, I have kept communication open from time to time. Tonight, while I was chatting with him, I asked him a direct question, which naturally, he kept trying to stall to answer directly. It was amazing. It was my final nail in the coffin. I can no longer do this to myself. I know I was wanting him to "change"..but that will never happen. He can't change. And if he does, it wont be enough of a change for me.

I have no doubt, he will continue on doing exactly as he always was with me. He may become more aware of his traits (since he is in therapy now), but he will NEVER change to a good man, an honest man, a real man capable of loving a woman in a healthy way.  Why I ever kept leaving that door slightly open is beyond me.

I made the mistake of asking him how many women he had been with since we first met. He tried to tell me that the only one was the one that broke us up in the first couple months of dating. Other than that, it was only his "friend" of 7 months behind my back. I directly asked him who he went to visit in CA while we were back together...As you will see,not much has changed in regards to his honesty. Anyone who is familiar with how N/P's communicate while trying to stall, re-direct a conversation, it is clear in this one. Here it is: (he is HK, I am K).


[11/21/2010 11:03:23 PM] k: WIth the past history, I don't see how I could ever "really" trust you. God, I feel like even now, while we are not together, that I don't trust you..not a good feeling. Then again, who am I to even question you at all?..no one.  I try to connect the fact of you and Cathy in CT...after her hurtful crap, lies, crazy crap..I washed my hands of her. I will NEVER speak to her again. And we were friends for 30 years. I thought I knew her..I thought we were friends. It hurt to walk away and it hurt to not have her to speak to from time to time...but I knew that she was toxic for me. I knew that her playing her games (once I realized what they were) I didn't want to be a part of. I walked away. Why can't I do the same with you?  I should, you hurt me more than she did, much deeper, more often, yet I can't let go all the way...yet I don't trust you. It makes no sense, well it does in clinical terms and situations, but to me it makes no sense.
[11/21/2010 11:05:47 PM] k: by the way, you should take your Melatonin very soon!
[11/21/2010 11:07:23 PM] hk: Clinically I can't respond.  However my opinion is that there is real love here, something deeper than either of us have ever realized before or will again.  Like many people, I have problems and those problems deeply affected you.  The good news is that at least I have felt the hurt I have caused and sincerely want to and have begun to do something about those problems and I think you know that too.
[11/21/2010 11:07:46 PM] hk BTW, you need to switch the laundry in 8 minutes
[11/21/2010 11:08:11 PM] k: thanks
[11/21/2010 11:08:20 PM] hk: I will take the meltonin when you switch the laundry
[11/21/2010 11:11:05 PM] k: the deeper "bond"...is from the trama in the beginning. I attached to you in a way I never did to anyone else..because of the hurt and the pain, and then you coming back proclaiming your love, the love you always wondered about but you finally realized you found it. Or so you told me. I think a lot of the other issues is its all words...there is no action. Just like the other night you said something about us being married already "if we lived in the same zip code"..well, we never did and we don't..so I guess we wont ever find out. But between the women, being dishonest, and the distance...we will never know.
[11/21/2010 11:11:52 PM] hk: there was a bond before anything like that came about
[11/21/2010 11:12:39 PM] hk the distance and any future dishonesty can change, the history, can't change
[11/21/2010 11:12:41 PM] ki: not from you to me..you were still on the sites, chatting, meeting, fucking...c'mon..there was no bond..I was one of MANY-you want to start being honest..do it!
[11/21/2010 11:13:36 PM] hkershner: There were not many, but I did make mistakes I have admitted to
[11/21/2010 11:14:18 PM] k: I heard you left the boards (that was months after you started seeing me)..because of the all the women who accused you of "cheating"...I know..I talked to people on the boards
[11/21/2010 11:15:01 PM] hk: Back then I dated yes.
[11/21/2010 11:15:42 PM] k: dated?...women accusing you of "cheating" is different then dating..it means you probably told them all the same lines you told me.." I can only focus on one person at a time"
[11/21/2010 11:16:19 PM] hk: I know you won't believe me but no I didn't say that
[11/21/2010 11:16:27 PM] k: well you said SOMETHING!
[11/21/2010 11:16:31 PM] k: c'mon..stop already
[11/21/2010 11:16:34 PM] k: be honest
[11/21/2010 11:16:38 PM] k: what does it matter now?
[11/21/2010 11:16:55 PM] k: you said that to ME!
[11/21/2010 11:16:59 PM] k: but that wasn't the case
[11/21/2010 11:17:18 PM] hk: I am being honest.  It doesn't matter now. But I am still being honest.
[11/21/2010 11:17:46 PM] k: I need to know something, how many had you slept with once you were with me and in between??
[11/21/2010 11:18:12 PM] hk: Back then I was dating yes, never committed to anyone
[11/21/2010 11:18:23 PM] hk: in between?
[11/21/2010 11:18:55 PM] k: first, you were not "committed to anyone" yet you led me to believe you were to me...after our first meeting?
[11/21/2010 11:19:17 PM] k: yes, how many others were there from my first meeting you and until the end...
[11/21/2010 11:19:48 PM] hk: I had been with holly physically but you knew that
[11/21/2010 11:19:56 PM] k: there were others
[11/21/2010 11:20:02 PM] hk: who?
[11/21/2010 11:20:17 PM] hk: Ellen I spent time with, yes
[11/21/2010 11:20:20 PM] k: if you can't be honest with me NOW,,,I am going to walk away
[11/21/2010 11:20:26 PM] k:: Howard, there were others!
[11/21/2010 11:20:33 PM] hk: fucking who?
[11/21/2010 11:20:50 PM] k: I'm not the one with that answer..YOU ARE...answer the fucking question
[11/21/2010 11:21:33 PM] k: I don't want names, I just want to know how many?
[11/21/2010 11:21:33 PM] hk: I can't think of anyone, and that is the truth.
[11/21/2010 11:21:40 PM] k: oh for god sakes
[11/21/2010 11:21:55 PM] hk: don't forget to change the laundry
[11/21/2010 11:22:20 PM] k: that can wait..I am not changing the subject or leaving until you answer me--honestly for christ sake
[11/21/2010 11:22:37 PM] hk: I didn't intend to change the subject
[11/21/2010 11:22:45 PM] k: good then answer it please
[11/21/2010 11:23:22 PM] hk: I did, I can not think of anyone I was with after you and I got together
[11/21/2010 11:23:39 PM] k: it wasn't only Holley
[11/21/2010 11:25:32 PM] hk: trying to remeber the timeline here, but after holly and when we got together again, there was time with ellen and before that there wasn't anyone
[11/21/2010 11:25:59 PM] k: who was the "friend" you went to see in CA when you and Bailey got into the accident?
[11/21/2010 11:26:41 PM] k: WOW, long pause
[11/21/2010 11:26:57 PM] hk: trying to remember
[11/21/2010 11:27:11 PM] k: give me a break..stalling to make up someone?
[11/21/2010 11:27:44 PM] hk: it'll come to me
[11/21/2010 11:27:49 PM] k: or trying to remember what you told me?
[11/21/2010 11:27:53 PM] k: c'mon..who was it?
[11/21/2010 11:28:11 PM] k: that should be VERY clear on such a tramatic trip to the airport--that you stil mae
[11/21/2010 11:28:12 PM] k: made
[11/21/2010 11:28:48 PM] hk: I remember the motorcycle trip
[11/21/2010 11:28:57 PM] ki: which was with who?
[11/21/2010 11:31:24 PM] hkershner: I stayed a couple of days with a woman named nancy
[11/21/2010 11:31:45 PM] k: nancy who, from where,,,you told me your friend...
[11/21/2010 11:31:55 PM] k: lots of typing for such a small response
[11/21/2010 11:31:59 PM] hk: mike sager
[11/21/2010 11:32:07 PM] hk: wow that took a while
[11/21/2010 11:32:25 PM] k: nancy, mike???  which one?
[11/21/2010 11:32:40 PM] hk: both actually
[11/21/2010 11:32:41 PM] k: took you a long time to answer and come up with what should have been a pretty easy answer
[11/21/2010 11:32:44 PM] k: bull shit
[11/21/2010 11:32:48 PM] k: you stayed with Nancy
[11/21/2010 11:32:50 PM] k: yes?
[11/21/2010 11:33:01 PM] hk: I couldn't remember the names
[11/21/2010 11:33:17 PM] k: why not, she was your friend, right?
[11/21/2010 11:33:23 PM] k: Nacy from where? Jdate?
[11/21/2010 11:33:38 PM] hk: it was a while ago
[11/21/2010 11:33:50 PM] k: so what's that got to do with the answer?
[11/21/2010 11:34:09 PM] hk: I didn't recall at first
[11/21/2010 11:34:14 PM] k: and now?
[11/21/2010 11:34:34 PM] k: hello??
[11/21/2010 11:34:37 PM] hk: here
[11/21/2010 11:34:39 PM] k: answer?
[11/21/2010 11:34:55 PM] hk: Which question do you want me to answer
[11/21/2010 11:35:02 PM] k: where did you meet Nancy?
[11/21/2010 11:35:19 PM] hk: jdate
[11/21/2010 11:36:04 PM] k: yes, we were together then..in case you forgot..you called me from there, just like when you were with Ellen...see Howard, there were others..and even now you can't be fucking honest with me. I just realize something....
[11/21/2010 11:36:05 PM] hk: I believe you were with scott in pa then
[11/21/2010 11:36:12 PM] k: NOOOOO I was not!!
[11/21/2010 11:36:18 PM] k: you had "won me back"
[11/21/2010 11:37:11 PM] hk: no, I do remember calling from the airport and j mentioned you were occupied with your new boyfriend
[11/21/2010 11:37:18 PM] hk: he was visiting that week
[11/21/2010 11:37:31 PM] k: what I just realized..you still can't be honest...you stalled, tried to re-direct the conversation..played like you didn't remember..you are TOXIC to me...I can not and will not continue on like this with you...its pointless...you have not changed..you will always be like this.  I tried, god knows I tried..
[11/21/2010 11:37:56 PM] hk: I'm being honest with you damn it
[11/21/2010 11:38:22 PM] k: WRONG!!  YOu called ME from the airport..I remember .. you also called me from the "HOTEL"...so you told me..NOT Nancies..you told me about your ride,,how cool it was..WTF..you can think what you want..but you were WITH ME then...
[11/21/2010 11:38:32 PM] hk: I didn't redirect anything, I am recalling bits and pieces of events of almost 3 years ago
[11/21/2010 11:38:45 PM] k: fuck you!  It was way past Holley!!
[11/21/2010 11:38:57 PM] k: So there is number two fuck while you were with me..and there are more...
[11/21/2010 11:39:03 PM] k: JESUS CHRIST!!!
[11/21/2010 11:39:58 PM] hk: I can not believe how this has spiraled
[11/21/2010 11:40:26 PM] k: of course not, because I asked you to be honest..I brought up a trip you took to see your friend while we were together!
[11/21/2010 11:40:36 PM] k: you couldn't remember..give me a break!!!
[11/21/2010 11:41:12 PM] hk: I could not recall names but I did eventually
[11/21/2010 11:41:15 PM] k: so it must have been Nancy who was ONE of the women on the boards, while we were together, that accused you of cheating...
[11/21/2010 11:41:26 PM] k: oh, so she was just a face, body, fuck for 5 days?!?!?
[11/21/2010 11:41:59 PM] hk: I stayed at her place for a couple of days, yes.
[11/21/2010 11:42:06 PM] k: ...while you were back with me...great!
[11/21/2010 11:42:19 PM] hk: no, while you were with scott
[11/21/2010 11:42:39 PM] k: YOU ARE DEAD WRONG...we were together..I was not with Scott then
[11/21/2010 11:43:05 PM] k: You got me back in Nov...this was MONTHS later that you went to CA
[11/21/2010 11:43:27 PM] hk: no I was there over the summer
[11/21/2010 11:43:29 PM] k: I have I/M's from when we got back together...
[11/21/2010 11:43:46 PM] k: exactly!!  We were back together..it was the flollowing summer you went to CA..OMG
[11/21/2010 11:44:12 PM] hk: I will have to look up the year, I don't remember
[11/21/2010 11:44:22 PM] k: I do!  We were together..not apart...
[11/21/2010 11:44:50 PM] hk: I don't remember but I can find out
[11/21/2010 11:44:58 PM] k: doesn't matter, I know!
[11/21/2010 11:45:04 PM] hk: ok

Let the Games Begin

About a month after I told him good-bye, he contacted me. He asked how I was doing, blah, blah, blah, and then said that he had made a mistake. I asked what mistake he had made. He told me after we had met that he had feelings he didn't know what to do with, he had never felt them before, he was scared. After not speaking with me, he realized that he had finally "knew" how he really felt about me.  And he "knows" it is love. Here is a portion of that conversation via instant messenger:

Him (10/8/2007 12:14:52 AM): But I will be different
Him (10/8/2007 12:14:59 AM): you will see
Me (10/8/2007 12:15:08 AM): different..how?
Him (10/8/2007 12:15:28 AM): Not fading away...no distractions
Him (10/8/2007 12:16:34 AM): We both know that talking won't do it, but actions will and I intend to actHim (10/8/2007 12:17:15 AM): I can prove it to you and to myself as well. I really want to do it.

Me (10/8/2007 12:17:45 AM): What?

Him (10/8/2007 1:30:30 AM): What we are feeling

Me (10/8/2007 1:30:46 AM): and you know that how?

Him (10/8/2007 1:30:59 AM): I just do

Him (10/8/2007 1:31:27 AM): no analysis, no probing, no need

Me (10/8/2007 1:31:35 AM): ok

Him (10/8/2007 1:32:11 AM): I just do, trying to remember feeling like this before...

Him (10/8/2007 1:32:18 AM): I can't

Me (10/8/2007 1:32:33 AM): really?

Him (10/8/2007 1:32:45 AM): really

Him (10/8/2007 1:33:03 AM): you talk to people and they say, "you just know".

Him (10/8/2007 1:33:22 AM): I was wandering around life wondering what that felt like

Him (10/8/2007 1:33:41 AM): just waiting to "know"

Him (10/8/2007 1:34:01 AM): dating and whatever to find out and "Know"

Him (10/8/2007 1:34:32 AM): being with others, I would sit there and think I don't know

Him (10/8/2007 1:35:14 AM): wondering how I would one day know and because so far I didn't know.
Him (10/8/2007 1:35:49 AM): Now I do
Him (10/8/2007 1:36:15 AM): I did before, but I really questioned knowing never being there before
Him (10/8/2007 1:36:32 AM): Now, I know.
Him (10/8/2007 1:36:41 AM): and I know that I know
Him (10/8/2007 1:36:50 AM): I know now that I do indeed love you
Him (10/8/2007 1:37:03 AM): Got it?
Me (10/8/2007 1:37:49 AM): Yes..I got it. One question..you said you knew before..and questioned it..what made you realize that you know now with me?
Him (10/8/2007 1:38:18 AM): Because I can not imagine it
Him (10/8/2007 1:38:44 AM): I can not imagine you not around me in my life

Him (10/8/2007 1:48:17 AM): Just looking at the woman I am in love with.
Me (10/8/2007 1:49:45 AM): I am in just trying to absorb this side of you..for you to be saying you love me is..just..I don't know how to explain it..Him (10/8/2007 1:49:55 AM): try

Me (10/8/2007 1:50:50 AM): Something that I thought you were incapable of, didn't think you were able to "go there"..

Him (10/8/2007 1:51:08 AM): makes sense

Him (10/8/2007 1:51:28 AM): some are just slower than others

Him (10/8/2007 1:51:38 AM): or more methodical, whatever.

The BIG Lies Start

As I had mentioned previously, I asked him if he was going to continue on the dating site when he informed me that he could only focus on one woman at a time, leading me to believe that he was interested and only "focused" on me.  A couple weeks after my visit and his statement, I received an email on the dating site we met on from a woman. I read the email which said: Hi, do we know each other? You look very familiar. Did you use to date XYZ?  I was a bit taken back since I had no idea who this woman was and replied: I don't believe we have met, I have no idea who you are. Not only did I use to date XYZ, I still am..why do you ask?  The next email reply to me read:  Oh, well nice to meet you. Thought you might like to know that I spent this past weekend with XYZ. Have a nice night. mwah.  My heart sunk.

I sat there stunned, and speechless.I felt sick. How could that be?  I had spoke to him briefly over the week end he was at his kids baseball games-or so he claimed. I sent him an instant message and told him to get in touch with me when he had a minute. He didn't respond until the next day while at work. I told him I had met a friend of his, naturally he asked who. I told him about the e-mails I received, of course he denied it. Eventually, he told me that she stopped by while visiting some friends in town (still not sure I believe that one), and that nothing happened. I kept questioning him, he kept denying-lying. At that point I told him to have a nice life and wished him luck with the other woman. I walked away. There was no way I was going to put up with that crap! 

First Lie Uncovered, more to follow...

Here were some early warnings that I dismissed. First off, on his profile on the dating site he said he was a non smoker. I, at the time was trying to quit and had that posted on my profile. During those months that we spoke he never told me he smoked. And the day that we finally met, and I had not smoked in almost a week again, when I kissed him, I could smell it on him. FIRST LIE. Since I was struggling with breaking the habit, I didn't consider it a big deal at the time. I questioned him as to why he lied on his profile, his answer was that he wanted to quit and thought if he met someone and ended up in a relationship it would give him the extra push he needed to actually do it.

I don't want to put too many of the lies that happened over the years quite yet-but there were MANY!!!

Before I left after meeting him that first time in person, I asked him "are you going to continue on the dating site?", of course I wanted to know if he was as interested in getting to know only me as I was him. He responded "I can only focus on one woman at a time", leading me to believe we were on the same page. 

Also, during my visit he would tell me something and then stop and say "oh, I already told you that-didn't I?"  When actually he had not told me. That was a major missed flag. The reason he couldn't remember what he had or had not told me was because he was communicating with LOTS of different women on MANY different sites-unknown to me at the time.

Be cautious of dating on-line and what flags to look out for from the start. As I get into more of my story, I will share some common ones and not so common flags that I experienced

In the beginning-how we met (beware of the internet dating sites)

We met on an Internet dating site. It seemed harmless enough. I was divorced, getting back out there- so to speak. I emailed and chatted with many men on that site. I actually ended up making a couple good friends from that experience, however, I did meet my ex on the dating site. Eventually, I came to find out that's how he met "all his women".

We exchanged a few messages and quickly started to web cam. I thought he was cute, charming, funny. We started to communicate almost daily for many months.  I thought I was getting to know him very well before actually meeting him. I liked it because I felt with the distance between us, it was giving me time to know him before anything physical could even transpire. I looked at it as a good thing.

We met after almost 2 months of getting to know each other. I felt comfortable enough, and was looking forward to it.  We lived 250 miles apart. He invited me to come to his place for the weekend. I excepted. I arrived before he got home from work. When he pulled up I looked at him and smiled. He smiled back. He came up to the steps and took my hand, and smiled. My heart melted. He said, "I am so glad you are finally here", and then he kissed me with the most passionate kiss I have ever had for a first kiss. It was the start of, what I thought, finally finding my soul mate.

We had dinner and wine, we talked and laughed. He was very attentive. A gentleman the entire evening. His sense of humor was awesome. He could take just about any story that's ordinary and make it funny as hell. I was really enjoying his company. My biggest concern with meeting him was wondering if there would be any chemistry. That question had been in answered. There was electrifying chemistry! 

The weekend was great. I really enjoyed spending time with him- I didn't want it to end. I was sad when it was time to leave, actually fighting back tears. I sensed he was not as emotional as I was about my leaving, but I over-looked it. I over looked a few different things during that first visit that should have been some MAJOR red flags, if only I had paid attention to those flags early on, I may not have wasted almost 4 years of my life....

Trying To Make Sense Of My Relationship

If your searching for answers to what kind of person you have been dealing with in your current or recently ended relationship, that indicates you have been dealing with a partner that most likely has a disorder. If you are feeling dazed, confused, trying to put the pieces together of what has been happening to you, then I want you to share your story. My desire is that those who are looking for answers and left feeling bewildered can come and share in a safe place, and get support while trying to heal from a dysfunctional relationship.

If you are or have been lied to, manipulated, more confused after questioning your partner's behavior, that is telling your gut that something is not right, in your relationship, most likely you are dealing with a partner who has a disorder. If you have been having those Red Flag moments only to ignore them and keep looking at only the "good" in the relationship, its time to take inventory as to what is REALLY going on. Are you in a real relationship? Or is it one sided? Are you giving more than you are getting back? Are you making excuses for why you are feeling off balance? If you are doing any of the above, its time to step back and look at what is really going on.

My relationship was on again-off again many times over the 4 years it lasted. It started very early with lies and cheating. Only to get sucked back in with promises of never hurting me again. Only to find out that it was indeed happening again. I loved him, so I forgave him. He would "win" my trust back only to repeat them same all over again. The lies upon lies, the women, the never ending feelings that kept me off balance while trying to put the pieces together. He would turn the tables on me when I questioned what my gut telling me. If I felt there was another woman and asked him directly, he would laugh at me and tell me it was my insecurities, only to find out eventually my gut was right. But his reaction would make me question myself. This stealth brain-washing is a tactic used with those who are on the spectrum of Narcissist  and or Sociopaths. And no, to be a sociopath does not mean you are a killer or thief. It is much more than that. The word is spreading and people are learning what these disorders actually are and look like. Sadly, most of us (men and women) are finding out what a Narcissist/Sociopaths are because of dealing with one in a romantic relationship. It leaves you numb, hurt, confused, trying to put the pieces together and figuring out what you have actually been through.

There are so many layers to learn regarding the condition of being in a relationship with such a person. Not only trying to figure out who/what they actually are, but also finding out how and why you ended up where you did. There is a lot to discover about yourself in order to heal as well.

I welcome any and all replies. Are you in this type of a relationship? Have you ever been in this type of relationship? Are you in the healing process? Are you just searching for answers?  Do you just need to vent?  I understand, I have been there, along with so many others.